In episode #26 of season 5 of saas.unbound, Anna Nadeina sits down with Antoine Minoux, founder and CEO of Fernand—a customer support platform tailored specifically for SaaS companies—and the former founder of ImprovMX, a popular free email forwarding service that he recently sold. Antoine shares his fascinating journey through building, operating, and eventually selling a SaaS business, offering invaluable insights into the acquisition process, challenges faced, and lessons learned along the way.

From ImprovMX to Exit: The Story Behind the Sale

ImprovMX started as a simple tool created by an indie developer in Georgia (the country), designed to forward emails from custom domains to personal inboxes. It organically gained traction within the developer community on platforms like Reddit and Hacker News. When the original founder found the workload overwhelming and the project unmonetized, Antoine and his co-founder acquired it for less than $5,000, rebuilding the product from the ground up.

They enhanced ImprovMX with subscription plans, premium features such as webhook redirection, faster email forwarding, and improved security and compliance. The product grew steadily, reaching around $30,000 in monthly recurring revenue (MRR) before Antoine decided to sell.

The decision to sell was driven by the operational demands of running an infrastructure-heavy service sending two million emails daily. Antoine and his co-founder, primarily builders and not operators, found the 24/7 technical support and scaling challenges draining and distracting from their passion project, Fernand. They wanted to focus on Fernand, a customer support help desk built for SaaS businesses, which they believed had more long-term potential without the need for extensive team expansion.

Finding the Right Buyer: A Strategic Approach

When it came time to sell ImprovMX, Antoine explored multiple avenues. Initially, he reached out to his network from a previous exit and expanded his search using resources like Laura Roa’s blog post listing typical SaaS acquirers and brokers. Despite interest from bigger companies, many wanted a higher ARR (usually over $1 million), making the valuation offers less appealing.

Antoine then engaged Quiet Light, a broker specializing in SaaS business sales. Through Quiet Light, they prepared a detailed prospectus and connected with multiple buyers. Among them, Matthew stood out—not a private equity firm or large group, but an individual with a technical background and a genuine interest in operating the business himself. This alignment of values and vision was critical to Antoine’s trust in the buyer.

“It felt like he could have joined the team right now. He understands the technical side and values what we’ve built. It was a green mark all around.”

The Acquisition Process: Legal Hurdles and Transition

The sale process involved extensive due diligence, legal negotiations, and operational handover. Antoine highlighted the complexity of transferring a European company to a buyer in the US, especially concerning data privacy regulations and migrating hundreds of thousands of free users and thousands of paying customers to a new Stripe account in another country.

They worked with a French law firm experienced in SaaS and startup legal frameworks, navigating the challenges of cross-border asset sales and aligning French and US legal requirements. Despite the hurdles, the process was smooth thanks to transparent communication and mutual respect between seller, buyer, and advisors.

Post-sale, Antoine and his team provided three months of transition support, though the actual hands-on involvement was minimal—under five hours in total. Most of the effort was upfront: creating a comprehensive data room with operating manuals, system documentation, and account credentials to ensure a seamless handover.

Lessons on Data Room Preparation

Antoine stresses the importance of early preparation, even if selling isn’t immediately on the horizon. Creating a well-organized data room using tools like Notion, and formalizing operational procedures, can dramatically ease future transitions and improve team onboarding. He likens this process to painting walls before moving out—something that makes the company more attractive and easier to manage.

Key Takeaways: Trust and Alignment Matter Most

Reflecting on the sale, Antoine highlights trust as the most crucial factor. Having a buyer with integrity, shared values, and a genuine interest in the product ensures a smoother process and a better future for the company’s users.

“If I ever sell again, the gut check on trust and ethics will be my top priority.”

Focus on Fernand: The Future of SaaS Customer Support

With ImprovMX sold, Antoine and his co-founder are fully focused on Fernand, a SaaS-tailored customer support help desk aimed particularly at B2B SaaS companies. Fernand recently launched AI-powered features that enhance customer support workflows without replacing human agents.

The platform enables users to train AI models on their own content—knowledge base articles, past replies, and website data—allowing smart reply generation with simple prompts and an AI chat widget that can handle common customer questions, always offering an easy escape to human support.

Antoine emphasizes Fernand’s philosophy: AI should augment, not replace, human support, increasing efficiency while maintaining personal touch.

Marketing Challenges and Opportunities

Despite strong product innovation, Antoine admits marketing remains a challenge. The existing landing page no longer reflects the product’s capabilities, and he is working on a comprehensive marketing overhaul to better communicate Fernand’s value proposition and pricing. Retention is solid, aided by some natural lock-in like DNS settings, but acquiring new customers requires more focused effort.

The Future of SaaS in the Age of AI

Antoine shares his perspective on AI’s impact on SaaS. He sees AI as a powerful tool for empowering creators and developers, enabling faster and better product development—even for non-expert coders. However, he predicts that some enterprise tools with poor user experience and high costs (e.g., Workday, Concur) are more vulnerable to disruption by custom AI-driven solutions built in-house.

From a UX standpoint, Antoine believes that chat-based interfaces are overused and often ineffective. Instead, AI should work behind the scenes to simplify setup flows and personalize experiences. Users prefer familiar interfaces and workflows, augmented by AI in the background rather than through constant conversation.

Biggest Wins and Failures: Personal Insights

One of Antoine’s biggest wins in recent times was a bold marketing stunt at the OMR conference in Hamburg. Dressing up as a vintage postman and personally delivering letters to attendees, he created a memorable brand moment that generated significant online buzz, reaching over 100,000 views on social media—far exceeding the conference attendance.

On the flip side, Antoine candidly shares the struggle of balancing product innovation with marketing efforts. Despite having wireframes and plans for a new website and marketing strategy since December, finding uninterrupted time to focus on these tasks remains difficult due to his full-time job and family commitments.

Productivity Hack: Using AI to Accelerate Work

Antoine’s favorite productivity tip is leveraging ChatGPT Plus to automate content creation. Whether drafting customer support articles, changelogs, or even managing personal projects like house renovations, AI helps him save time and produce high-quality outputs quickly. He customizes AI with context and screenshots to generate tailored results, making routine tasks more efficient.

The post Inside the SaaS acquisition: how to sell your company successfully with Antoine Minoux @Fernand appeared first on saas.group.

In episode #25 of season 5 of the saas.unbound podcast, Anna Nadeina sits down with Benedikt Böringer, co-founder of Jamie, an AI-powered meeting assistant designed to transform how professionals capture, summarize, and act on meeting insights. Together, they explore Benedikt’s entrepreneurial journey, the challenges of building an AI SaaS product in a saturated market, and strategies that helped Jamie not only gain traction but also build lasting user engagement.

Benedikt Böringer’s Journey and Early Ventures

Benedikt, originally from Cologne, Germany, began his entrepreneurial path while studying international business. Alongside his best friend and co-founder Lewis, he launched their first B2B SaaS product over five years ago. Their initial ventures included:

• Respond: A tool aimed at improving employee feedback processes within larger companies.
• Team Tab: An internal micro-blog platform for asynchronous status updates.

Despite their early efforts, Benedikt and his team realized these products didn’t fully resonate with users, prompting a pivot towards Jamie, their AI meeting assistant, which they have focused on for the past two and a half years.

The Birth of Jamie: Idea and Validation

Benedikt shares that Jamie was conceived just months before the release of ChatGPT, at a time when AI-driven note-taking tools were scarce and often limited to English language and online meetings. Noticing the repetitive nature of note-taking and the potential of GPT models to automate this, the team conducted a rapid validation experiment:

• They set up a landing page after a week of brainstorming and invited their network to sign up.
• The response was overwhelming, with hundreds signing up and expressing eagerness to use the product.
• Rather than charging immediately, they requested users’ time for 15-minute onboarding calls, gaining valuable feedback and demonstrating initial commitment.

This approach helped Jamie understand user needs early on, refine the product, and build a loyal base before formal monetization.

Growth Strategies and Overcoming Challenges

In a market flooded with AI tools post-ChatGPT, Benedikt highlights how Jamie differentiated itself by focusing on delivering tangible value and an excellent user experience. Key growth insights include:

• Personal Connection: Engaging directly with early users helped build trust and foster forgiveness during initial product imperfections.
• Habit Formation: Since meetings are integral to many professionals’ daily routines, Jamie naturally became a frequently used tool, increasing user retention through habitual use.
• Organic Growth: Leveraging existing networks and prioritizing SEO early on brought about 90-95% of Jamie’s growth, capitalizing on rising search interest around AI note-taking.

Benedikt also reflects on the importance of focus. Initially, Jamie experimented with multiple product features and growth channels simultaneously, which slowed progress. The turning point came when they doubled down on SEO and refined the core meeting summary experience, leading to accelerated growth and higher customer satisfaction.

The Challenge of Marketing a Versatile Product

Jamie’s broad applicability is both a blessing and a challenge. While the product can be used by diverse customer segments, marketing it requires a nuanced approach:

• SEO efforts target problem-focused keywords like “save time in meetings” or “get more out of your meetings,” rather than generic terms.
• Product development prioritizes features tailored to specific user groups to avoid building a one-size-fits-all solution.

Such strategic positioning helps Jamie resonate with users despite its universal appeal.

Social Media, Brand Building, and Podcasting

Benedikt and his team use social media, particularly LinkedIn, to authentically document their journey, sharing ups, downs, and lessons learned. This transparency builds community, supports word-of-mouth referrals, and aids in talent recruitment by showcasing company culture.

Jamie also recently launched a podcast focused on productivity and conversations with entrepreneurs and experts. While still in its early stages, the podcast serves as both a knowledge-sharing platform and a growth channel, leveraging guest networks to extend reach.

Leveraging AI Tools and Productivity Hacks

Jamie’s team embraces AI to enhance internal workflows and customer interactions. Examples include:

• Automating initial customer success responses.
• Using AI in outbound sales to boost efficiency.
• Employing SEO-optimized content tools to improve marketing efforts.

Benedikt’s personal top AI tools include Jamie itself, ChatGPT for a variety of tasks (from work to personal fitness planning), and Superhuman’s AI-enhanced email client. This highlights the practical integration of AI both within and outside of Jamie’s core product.

Fundraising Insights and Investor Relations

Jamie’s funding journey has been gradual, involving angel investors and funds over several years. Benedikt emphasizes that their investors came on board due to belief in the team and product, rather than riding the AI hype alone. The product’s broad appeal also made it easier to demonstrate value to investors, as many could experience Jamie firsthand.

Currently, Jamie is not actively raising funds but remains open to future rounds based on needs and growth opportunities.

Reflecting on Wins, Failures, and Lessons Learned

Benedikt cites Jamie’s launch day—when they hit their signup target within 24 hours—as a major win, validating their product-market fit and motivating the team.

Conversely, his biggest failure across ventures has been building products without proper validation, resulting in offerings that users did not truly want. Within Jamie’s journey, early technical glitches during live demos taught the team valuable lessons about readiness and user expectations.

His key advice for founders is to practice radical honesty within their teams, openly confronting what works and what doesn’t, and having the courage to pivot or cut losses decisively.

The post What makes AI SaaS products actually stick with Benedikt Böringer @Jamie appeared first on saas.group.

In episode #24 of season 5 of the saas.unbound podcast, Anna Nadeina sits down with Trygve Karper, co-founder of Databutton. Databutton is an AI-powered no-code platform that enables users to build data-driven and AI-driven web applications simply through conversation. This insightful episode dives deep into Trygve’s journey, the vision behind Databutton, the challenges and opportunities in the AI SaaS space, and practical advice for founders looking to leverage AI in their products.

From Mathematics to AI-Powered No-Code Solutions

Trygve’s path to founding Databutton is as unique as it is inspiring. With a PhD in mathematics and years of research experience, he transitioned into AI, data science, and machine learning, joining the Norwegian scale-up Cognite as an early employee. There, he helped build AI and data science capabilities that supported digital transformation for large enterprises like BP and Exxon.

However, Trygve recognized a critical gap: many large-scale digital initiatives failed to empower employees to solve their own day-to-day problems. This insight became the foundation of Databutton’s mission—to enable individuals, especially non-technical users, to build custom tools and automate workflows themselves, using AI as an enabler.

What Is Databutton? Explained Simply

At its core, Databutton is an online AI agent that lets users describe the problems they want to solve and how they want to work differently. The AI then generates the full application stack—from UI to backend—allowing users to test, iterate, and deploy their apps seamlessly. This conversational approach removes much of the traditional complexity involved in building software.

Real-World Use Cases

• Mortgage Business Automation: A small Texas-based mortgage broker uses Databutton to automate the entire process from lead generation to deal closure, including payment history analysis, property appraisal, loan valuation, and marketing to investors.
• Sales Team Workflow Automation: A sales leader created an app to automatically upload PDFs into Salesforce, replacing tedious manual data entry.

These examples highlight Databutton’s flexibility—not just for SaaS product development but for automating a wide range of business workflows.

Addressing the Learning Curve and Technical Aspects

While Databutton is marketed as a no-code platform, it is built on a Python-centric architecture that generates React frontends and Python FastAPI backends. However, users do not need to write code themselves. Trygve acknowledges there is a learning curve, especially for first-time users, but emphasizes that no coding knowledge is required to create functional, production-ready applications.

With dedicated in-product support and a chat feature, Databutton helps users overcome hurdles quickly. Typically, building a fully integrated SaaS tool takes around three weeks for a non-technical user, which is comparable to other no-code tools but with the added benefit of full backend capabilities.

Pricing and Support Model

Databutton operates on a monthly subscription model, providing a one-stop solution with no hidden costs. Pricing tiers start at $200 per month for lighter use, with a $700 plan offering extensive support, including direct assistance in fixing issues and accelerating progress. This model ensures users get value and help throughout their development journey.

Overcoming the Blank Canvas Problem

One of the key challenges Trygve highlights is the “blank canvas” problem—users often struggle to envision the full scope of an app they want to build. To tackle this, Databutton encourages starting with a clear plan and breaking development into manageable tasks, iterating step-by-step. They also provide prompt guides and templates to help users communicate effectively with the AI agent.

The Reality of AI Adoption and Its Impact on Work

Trygve offers a balanced perspective on AI’s role in the workforce. AI excels at producing “good enough” results quickly—whether in writing, coding, or creative tasks—but it is not perfect. He points out that companies like Klarna faced challenges when replacing human roles with AI because AI struggles with nuanced human relations.

At the enterprise level, many organizations have yet to fully leverage AI productivity gains, sometimes resorting to layoffs instead of growth. In contrast, smaller companies and startups can use AI to compete more effectively, leveling the playing field by gaining access to capabilities that previously required large teams or budgets.

AI Tools in Databutton’s Development

The Databutton team uses a variety of AI tools such as OpenAI’s models, Anopic, Gemini, and chat-based interfaces to build and improve their product. Trygve notes that while some developers may use code generation tools like Cursor, the company’s main focus is on integrating AI to enhance user productivity and streamline internal operations.

Competition and Differentiation in the AI SaaS Landscape

Trygve positions Databutton as distinct from other no-code and AI app builders like Lobe, Bolt, and Devin. While many competitors cater to technical users focused on prototyping and MVPs, Databutton targets small business owners and non-technical users who want to create full production applications with real backend integration.

Key differentiators include:

• Full-stack app generation with Python backend
• Comprehensive user support to ensure success
• Focus on solving real workplace problems, not just quick prototypes

Growth Strategy and Customer Acquisition

The company’s main growth channels are YouTube and word of mouth. YouTube serves as a news source and educational platform for potential users, while referrals help build a loyal customer base. Trygve admits that while word of mouth is difficult to start, being part of the broader AI movement and having a differentiated product has helped them gain traction.

Validating Product-Market Fit Through Early Sales

Before fully launching, the Databutton team reached out proactively to potential users on LinkedIn, demoed the product, and secured paid subscriptions on the spot. While the conversion rate from initial outreach was low, those who engaged converted at around 40%, providing strong validation that paying customers found real value in the product.

Biggest Wins and Lessons Learned

Trygve’s biggest win was the board’s eventual belief in AI-generated full-stack app development. Initially met with skepticism, the success of competitors like Bolt and Lobe helped validate Databutton’s vision. On the flip side, the team acknowledges that marketing and sales are their weaker areas, coming from a strong product development background but still learning how to scale growth effectively.

A Hack for Balancing Work and Life as a Founder

To maintain balance, Trygve sets aside dedicated time daily with his children, treating it as a sacred commitment before diving into work. He also avoids micromanagement, empowering his team to own their results, which fosters excitement and ownership across the company.

The post How to stand out when building an AI-powered SaaS with Trygve Karper @Databutton appeared first on saas.group.

In episode #23 of season 5 of the saas.unbound podcast, Anna Nadeina talks with Matthew Tse, CEO of ImprovMX, an acclaimed email forwarding SaaS. Matthew shares his unique experience transitioning from a seasoned engineer to a SaaS owner through acquisition and sheds light on the lessons learned along the way.

From Software Engineer to SaaS Owner: Matthew’s Entrepreneurial Journey

Matthew’s background is rooted deeply in technology and engineering. Having worked as a Site Reliability Engineer (SRE) at Google, a self-driving car startup, and later at a quant fund in New York City, he cultivated an extensive technical skill set. Yet, despite a successful career, Matthew found himself craving entrepreneurial freedom.

“I just got tired of working for people… I really wanted to wake up to my own schedule, eat what I hunt, rather than just doing a thing that someone else told me to do.”

Initially, Matthew pursued the indie hacking route, creating micro apps and bootstrapping projects without external funding. However, he struggled to generate revenue, even failing to make a single dollar from some of his ideas, including a tax estimation app designed to help individuals avoid penalties in the complex US tax system.

This experience led him to consider acquisition as a viable path to entrepreneurship. Inspired by podcasts like My First Million, where entrepreneurs shared stories of acquiring and scaling existing businesses, Matthew began exploring the acquisition market for SaaS companies.

Why Buy a Boring SaaS Like ImprovMX?

Matthew’s acquisition philosophy centers on owning a “boring,” stable SaaS business that aligns with a lifestyle approach rather than chasing hypergrowth at any cost.

• Lifestyle Business:** He wanted a company that allowed him to work hard but maintain personal balance without the stress of an 80-hour workweek.
• Technical Complexity as a Strength:** ImprovMX’s email forwarding infrastructure is based on 1990s internet protocols, which many shy away from. For Matthew, this technical challenge was a perfect fit.Sticky Customer Base and Strong Reputation:** The company’s organic growth and loyal users offered a solid foundation for iterative improvements.

Matthew describes this synergy as a perfect match between his strengths and the company’s needs:

“The weakness of the business—its technical complexity—was my strength. And the strength of the business—its reputation and organic growth—was my weakness.”

Finding and Acquiring ImprovMX: A Strategic Approach

Matthew spent six months scouring marketplaces like Flippa, Acquire.com, and Quiet Light, reviewing over a thousand listings. Most companies didn’t meet his criteria—they were either too small, too recent, or had questionable metrics. ImprovMX appeared on Quiet Light and immediately caught his attention.

To secure the deal, Matthew offered a compelling package:

• All-cash payment
• Quick closing timeline (around 30 days)
• Minimal or no earnout conditions

This approach demonstrated seriousness and trustworthiness to the founders, Antoine and Surreal, who were praised for their integrity throughout the process.

Due Diligence and Unexpected Challenges

Matthew conducted thorough due diligence, including financial verification through Centoa, which confirmed the numbers aligned with Stripe revenue and tax returns. However, he found the legal negotiations over the Asset Purchase Agreement (APA) unexpectedly challenging, describing it as a “second tough negotiation” after agreeing on general terms.

Despite these hurdles, the acquisition process was smooth, and Matthew never experienced the common pre-closing doubts that many buyers face.

Transition and Customer Reactions Post-Acquisition

One common concern during acquisitions is customer churn due to uncertainty or dissatisfaction. Matthew carefully crafted communications to announce the acquisition, fearing mass departures. However, the reality was quite different:

• Most customers, paying or free, were indifferent to the ownership change.
• Only a handful of free-plan users expressed concerns or chose to leave.
• Paying customers appreciated the potential for a better product backed by a successful owner.

Matthew maintains a direct line with Surreal for technical questions but emphasizes his goal of full independence, only reaching out for complex infrastructure insights out of genuine curiosity.

Growing ImprovMX: Building a Team and Improving the Product

Since acquisition, Matthew has focused on transforming the technical support team to enable collaborative development. He:

• Upgraded a technical support member to junior developer
• Hired an additional junior developer
• Is actively seeking a senior developer to accelerate feature development and offload operational tasks

Alongside team growth, he is making continuous improvements to the infrastructure, front end, back end, and overall reliability. Marketing efforts include refining the landing page, better customer targeting, and experimenting with paid advertising.

Interestingly, Matthew is cautious about founder branding at this stage, preferring to focus on the company’s growth rather than personal visibility, which he believes could complicate future sales or transitions.

Understanding SaaS Multiples and Market Trends

Matthew shares valuable insights into SaaS valuation multiples based on his market research:

• Commodity SaaS: Typically sell for 2x to 3x revenue multiples due to high competition and volatility.
• Niche SaaS: Command 3.5x to 4x multiples because of more elastic market power.
• High-Quality, Established SaaS: Can fetch 5x or higher thanks to brand reputation, longevity, and customer stickiness.

He notes that extremely high multiples (8x to 10x) usually involve strategic acquisitions rather than typical market transactions.

Key Lessons and Entrepreneurial Advice

Reflecting on his journey, Matthew emphasizes the importance of self-awareness for entrepreneurs:

“You should spend a lot of time to really do an internal search of who you are as an entrepreneur… figuring out what you are actually good at and what you are trash at.”

His failed ventures taught him he struggles with starting sales from scratch but excels at iterative improvements on existing products. This realization guided him toward acquiring a business that matches his strengths.

He also recommends founders consider having advisors or brokers during acquisitions for peace of mind, even if they don’t cover every aspect of the process.

A Simple Hack to Keep Entrepreneurial Spirits High

To keep morale light and motivation high, Matthew implemented a fun Slack notification featuring a “money vomiting” emoji every time a new subscriber joined. This small gesture brought daily smiles and reminded him to enjoy the journey.

The post Why buying a boring SaaS might be better than building one with Matthew Tse @ImprovMX appeared first on saas.group.

In episode #22 of season 5 of the saas.unbound podcast, Anna Nadeina sits down with Jason Fried, co-founder of 37signals and the visionary behind iconic products like Basecamp, Hey.com, Once.com, and the newest venture, Fizzy. This insightful conversation dives deep into product development philosophies, innovative UI experiments, challenges in SaaS business models, hiring practices, and how AI is influencing the future of software.

Building Hey.com’s Calendar: Experimentation Over Convention

Jason reflects on the lengthy journey of developing the Hey.com calendar, a feature that took roughly two years and around 18 to 20 six-week development cycles. Unlike merely recreating a traditional calendar grid, the Hey calendar was a novel product that required extensive experimentation to find the right ideas and interactions.

He emphasizes that much of the early work was exploratory, involving fluid, free-form ideation with a small team before transitioning into more structured development cycles. The complexity of calendar features—like accurately handling repeating events—and the high user expectations made this a challenging but rewarding endeavor.

When asked about involving customers early in development, Jason shares that 37signals typically builds the first version of their products for themselves, rather than seeking external validation upfront. This approach allows them to mold the initial product vision without outside noise. Only after launch do they gather user feedback, which they carefully absorb and integrate over time, letting users adjust to new paradigms before making drastic changes.

Building for Yourself vs. Building for Customers

Jason contrasts his approach with teams that rush into building products without validating the market. He stresses the importance of building because you want to build—not just because others are doing it or because you think “if you build it, they will come.”

He highlights that even a well-built product faces one of the toughest challenges: distribution. Getting people to notice, try, and switch to something new is often harder than the building itself. For small teams without large marketing budgets or audiences, this is a significant hurdle.

Jason also critiques the common practice of asking friends or acquaintances if they would pay for a product, noting that such feedback rarely predicts actual customer behavior. The ultimate test is real-world conversion—people discovering your product independently and deciding to pay for it.

Introducing Fizzy: A Fresh Take on Bug and Issue Tracking

Fizzy, 37signals’ latest product, began as a quirky idea inspired by bugs splatting on a car windshield during a road trip. The team initially envisioned a bug tracker represented by splats on a screen, symbolizing the mess of unresolved issues. However, practical UI constraints led them to evolve the concept from splats to bubbles, and finally to a two-column card-based interface.

This card system organizes tasks into “considering” and “doing” columns—an approach inspired by Basecamp’s card tables but simplified to focus on what matters most. Jason explains that while Basecamp traditionally tracks bugs internally, Fizzy offers a dedicated space to manage issues more immediately and clearly, without the distractions of other project elements.

One of Fizzy’s innovative features is the “golden ticket” system, which allows users to mark any task as a high-priority item that visually floats to the top of the list with a golden glow. This approach eschews traditional priority labels like high, medium, or low, favoring a simple, intuitive way to highlight what truly needs urgent attention.

Fizzy’s Broader Vision

Jason envisions Fizzy as a tool not just for software developers but for anyone who manages “issues” or “bugs,” whether in homes, rental properties, or other systems. Unlike complex, technical bug trackers like Jira, Fizzy aims to be approachable and useful for a wide range of users who need to track and resolve problems efficiently.

Future Integrations and AI Features

While Fizzy is still early in its development, it plans to include APIs and webhooks to integrate with tools like Slack or Campfire, allowing seamless notifications and updates. Additionally, the product experiments with a new UI paradigm featuring a command-line style interface called the “do bar” (fizzydo), enabling quick keyboard-driven commands and natural language queries to interact with tasks.

Jason shares that this command-line interaction will eventually extend to Basecamp, signaling a fresh way to navigate and manage data faster than traditional mouse-driven interfaces.

Reflections on Campfire and the Once.com Model

Campfire, 37signals’ self-hosted group chat product sold through Once.com, experienced an initial surge in sales but has since settled into a modest, steady stream. Despite making installation remarkably simple, Jason acknowledges that self-hosted software remains a tough sell for many users accustomed to SaaS convenience.

He sees the self-hosted model as promising but still early, with a niche of tech-savvy users embracing it. The team has also created Writeboard, a tool for publishing online books, which is free and open source, but both products are currently on the back burner as they focus on SaaS offerings like Fizzy.

There’s also an intriguing future possibility: starting with Fizzy as a SaaS product and later offering customers the option to host it themselves, blending the best of both worlds.

Hiring at 37signals: What Makes a Standout Candidate?

In a competitive hiring process for a product designer role that garnered over 1,400 applications, Jason shares insights into what sets candidates apart. The team quickly filters out unqualified applicants, especially those who fail to follow instructions or submit generic cover letters.

Key factors that elevate candidates include:

• Effort and Personalization: Candidates who invest extra effort, such as creating micro-sites or tailored applications, immediately stand out.
• Strong Writing Skills: Since written communication is fundamental at 37signals, well-crafted cover letters are crucial.
• Creativity and Design Imagination: The team looks for originality and the candidate’s unique design voice, not just adherence to existing styles.

After multiple interview rounds and paid design assignments, the final choice often comes down to intangible qualities—such as a palpable hunger for the role and a genuine desire to grow with the company. Jason notes that sometimes the best candidate isn’t the one who initially seems perfect but the one who continuously impresses throughout the process.

Measuring Developer Performance: Focus on Trajectory, Not Metrics

When discussing developer productivity and performance evaluation, Jason offers a refreshing perspective: rather than relying on metrics like lines of code or ticket velocity, the team focuses on trajectory and overall contribution.

Key takeaways include:

• Know Who’s Pulling Their Weight: In a small team, it’s clear who is contributing effectively.
• Focus on Improvement: Is the person growing, stagnating, or regressing?
• The One-Year Rule: After a year, the critical question is: “Would we hire this person again?” This simple question cuts through complex evaluation data.
• Acceptance of Different Growth Paths: Some developers may plateau at senior levels, which can be perfectly acceptable depending on the role and expectations.

Jason cautions against traditional priority labels and metrics, noting that physical order (like dragging tasks to the top) is often a clearer and more effective way to communicate importance.

Personal Hacks and AI Usage

Jason shares some personal productivity hacks, including a return to sketching ideas with pen and paper. He finds that limiting himself to a single sharpie marker helps focus on the core idea rather than perfecting details prematurely.

Regarding AI tools, Jason uses ChatGPT primarily for refining and simplifying his writing rather than generating content outright. He appreciates ChatGPT’s balance of conversational style and helpful suggestions, preferring it to other AI assistants like Claude or Perplexity.

He also shares a charming anecdote about how his 10-year-old son uses ChatGPT extensively, fueling his curiosity and learning, from baking recipes to making paints. The family enjoys interactive voice sessions during car rides, highlighting how AI is becoming an educational companion for the next generation.

The post UI, AI, and new SaaS models at 37signals with Jason Fried appeared first on saas.group.

In episode #21 of season 5, Anna Nadeina talks with Jason, founder at Zigpoll, helping eCommerce brands get a deeper understanding of their customers by using micro-surveys.

It’s a deep-dive into Jason’s experience, strategies, and lessons learned—from his initial motivation and growth tactics to branding, affiliate programs, and personal productivity hacks. Whether you’re a solo founder or part of a growing startup, Jason’s story offers valuable insights into scaling a SaaS product effectively without losing yourself in the process.

From Developer to Solo SaaS Founder: The Zigpoll Origin Story

Jason began his career nearly a decade ago as a front-end developer at an e-commerce agency. Frustrated by building products for others without seeing the rewards firsthand, he decided to create something on his own. His background in development naturally led him to the Shopify app store, a channel that allowed him to focus on product creation while Shopify handled distribution and infrastructure.

“I wanted to work alone,” Jason explains, noting that solo work helped him avoid burnout from team coordination and delegation. This independent approach shaped Zigpoll’s early days as a Shopify app focused on providing micro-surveys tailored to e-commerce brands.

Building and Marketing Zigpoll: The Evolution of Customer Focus

Initially, Jason’s instinct was to target technical users like developers, posting on forums such as Hacker News and software-focused subreddits. However, he soon realized the importance of understanding the actual users of his product, who were often marketers or non-technical professionals.

“You have to understand who is actually going to be using your product and focus on them. It’s not always the developers; it’s often marketers or others who want actionable insights.”

This insight transformed Jason’s product development and marketing strategy. He shifted towards tailoring the user experience, onboarding flow, and even the landing pages to better resonate with his ideal customer profile. This customer-centric approach is now a cornerstone of Zigpoll’s growth.

Leveraging the Shopify App Store: Opportunities and Challenges

Shopify served as a perfect launchpad for Zigpoll, offering an accessible distribution channel for solo developers. Jason acknowledges that while Shopify remains a key growth channel, it also imposes certain limitations.

• Growth Potential: Shopify’s ecosystem allowed Zigpoll to gain traction quickly, but scaling beyond a niche within Shopify can be challenging.
• Competition and Discovery: With thousands of apps available, maintaining visibility requires constant effort, especially through positive reviews.
• Platform Dependence: Shopify’s rules and ecosystem constraints mean that at some point, product growth outside Shopify becomes necessary for more control.

Jason’s advice to fellow founders is to use Shopify as a springboard but keep an eye on expanding beyond it to diversify distribution and brand presence.

Customer Support as a Growth Lever

Customer support is often seen as a tedious task, but Jason views it as a “superpower” for early-stage SaaS success. He personally handles every support ticket and email, using empathy and responsiveness to turn even frustrated users into loyal advocates.

To manage the volume, Jason employs strategies such as:

• Creating email templates for common questions, which also highlight product gaps to be addressed in future updates.
• Offering discounts or grandfathering pricing tiers to appease unhappy customers and encourage positive reviews.
• Following up proactively with users to ensure satisfaction and collect feedback.

His approach underscores the importance of listening to customers directly, especially when operating solo, to refine the product and foster organic growth.

Branding and Visual Identity: Simplicity and Consistency Matter

Jason admits that branding was not a primary focus in Zigpoll’s early days. Having designed the logo and visual assets himself, he recognizes that a consistent and simple brand identity is crucial for cohesive marketing and user recognition.

“Keep it simple — simpler than you think. Have a unique, visually cohesive icon and font that ties all your marketing materials together.”

He also highlights that branding’s importance can vary depending on the target audience. For B2B SaaS products used by marketers or business users, brand identity can be a differentiator that builds trust and loyalty. For more technical, tool-like products, it might be less critical.

Affiliate Programs: Offering Value to Drive Growth

Zigpoll’s affiliate program is built on offering one of the most competitive revenue shares in the market—50% lifetime revenue share. Jason explains that this aggressive approach is sustainable due to high margins and helps attract affiliates who genuinely believe in the product.

He emphasizes that authentic affiliates often come from satisfied customers who want to share the product, rather than opportunistic promoters looking for quick commissions. The program was launched early in the company’s life, although it took time before affiliates actively promoted the product.

Balancing Solo Foundership and Personal Life

Running a solo SaaS business while managing family life presents unique challenges. Jason shares how his routine has adapted since becoming a parent:

• He works in focused time blocks throughout the day, such as early mornings before the household wakes up, mid-morning, and evening sessions after his child goes to bed.
• He prioritizes tasks based on mental capacity, handling customer support or development when he is most alert.
• He acknowledges the constant juggling act but finds motivation in doing work he loves.

Jason’s key to avoiding burnout is aligning his work with his passions and setting a clear “north star” goal—initially focused on acquiring five-star reviews, and later shifting toward revenue growth.

Biggest Wins and Failures: Learning from Detours

Jason’s biggest win was a pivot during the COVID-19 pandemic when he developed a virtual concert platform for the music industry, generating nearly $400K in revenue by orchestrating online events for major labels like Universal and Sony Music. However, this detour was also a double-edged sword.

While financially successful, the virtual concert business was highly time-intensive and lacked scalability, pulling focus away from Zigpoll’s core product growth during a critical time.

“It was a cool detour but a missed opportunity not to focus sooner on what was clearly working—post-purchase surveys for e-commerce.”

This experience underscores the importance of balancing exploration with focus, especially for solo founders with limited bandwidth.

Productivity Hacks for Founders

One of Jason’s most effective productivity hacks is dedicating the early morning hour between 7 and 8 a.m. to work. This time slot offers several advantages:

• Fewer distractions and support requests.
• Opportunity to connect with European customers and partners during their working hours.
• Helps build an international presence that might otherwise be missed.

He encourages founders to identify their own “north star” metric—whether it’s customer satisfaction, revenue, or another goal—and prioritize daily activities around it. Flexibility in scheduling and task management is vital, especially when balancing family and work.

The post Mastering SaaS growth without burning out as a solo founder with @Jason Zigelbaum @Zigpoll appeared first on saas.group.

In episode #20 of season 5 of the saas.unbound podcast, Anna Nadeina sits down with Johannes Karjula, founder of Trustmary, a company dedicated to helping businesses collect, manage, and display customer reviews and testimonials. Their conversation sheds light on Johannes’s entrepreneurial journey, the evolution of Trustmary from a project-based business to a SaaS powerhouse, and the critical role of customer-led growth in scaling SaaS companies globally.

From Project Business to SaaS: Johannes’s Entrepreneurial Journey

Johannes’s entrepreneurial roots run deep, though his SaaS experience is relatively young. Trustmary’s story began in 2016 as a service business producing high-quality testimonial videos and client stories to showcase social proof for companies. However, the project-based model wasn’t scalable. Many clients wanted testimonial content but lacked the contacts of satisfied customers willing to participate.

The turning point came in 2020, amid the COVID-19 pandemic. As the project business ground to a halt—revenue dropping from hundreds of thousands to nearly zero—Johannes and his team pivoted to focus on software. They developed a piece of software internally to identify happy customers willing to provide testimonials, which became the foundation for Trustmary’s SaaS offering.

With seed investment from Vendep Capital, Trustmary launched its SaaS product in Finland in 2020, initially focusing on outbound sales. By early 2022, they introduced a premium product and began expanding internationally. Today, Trustmary serves clients in over 80 countries, ranging from micro-businesses to larger enterprises, with dedicated sales efforts in promising markets such as Germany.

The Origin and Meaning Behind the Name “Trustmary”

The name “Trustmary” came about during Trustmary’s global expansion phase, replacing their original Finnish name, which didn’t resonate internationally. Johannes wanted a name that conveyed trust and was globally recognizable. “Mary” was chosen because it is one of the most common names worldwide, making it relatable and easy to remember.

Interestingly, when combined, “Trustmary” evokes a sense of a “trust engine” or a reliable source of trusted opinions, which fits perfectly with their mission of helping companies build trust through customer voices. Johannes also noted that US friends viewed the name positively, associating it with authenticity and reliability.

Customer-Led Growth: The Heart of Trustmary’s Success

Johannes defines customer-led growth as the practice of leveraging satisfied customers’ voices to attract similar, ideal clients. Early in his career as a digital marketing entrepreneur, he noticed that adding testimonials and client stories to websites significantly improved conversion rates. He realized that testimonials from customers similar to the prospect created more relevant and trustworthy messages, increasing the likelihood of new clients converting and being satisfied.

At Trustmary, this philosophy permeates the entire organization. Every team member, from marketing to sales to customer success, is responsible for pushing customers forward and helping them derive more value. The company often provides free assistance and guidance to clients, believing that happy customers lead to retention, upsells, and referrals. This approach aligns with their ideal client profile (ICP) thinking, focusing on clients they can serve best and who will benefit most from their services.

Onboarding and Customer Research

Trustmary takes an active approach to onboarding, offering free trials and personally guiding new customers through the product. This hands-on method helps them understand customer needs and improve the product accordingly. Everyone in the company shares responsibility for advancing customers through the funnel, emphasizing collaboration across functions to optimize the customer journey.

Going Global: Iterations, Learnings, and Growth

Launching a SaaS product globally is no easy feat. Trustmary’s journey was marked by continuous iteration and learning. After launching their premium product in 2022, the company initially focused on signups but quickly realized that activation and conversion were more critical metrics. Early activation rates hovered around 8%, but through weekly iterations and improved onboarding, this rose to over 50%, driving better conversion rates.

Pricing was set deliberately low to test willingness to pay, and after about a year, Trustmary started seeing meaningful upgrades and retention. Their growth relied heavily on organic channels like SEO and Google Ads, carefully optimized to attract visitors who genuinely needed their solution. Johannes emphasizes the importance of aligning marketing efforts with activation and revenue metrics to avoid vanity metrics that don’t contribute to growth.

Integrating AI to Enhance Customer Insights

Trustmary incorporates AI features into its product to analyze customer reviews and feedback, providing actionable insights to clients about what to improve. The idea for AI integration emerged directly from customer requests—larger clients were exporting data to use their own AI tools, prompting Trustmary to build those capabilities in-house.

AI helps categorize and rank reviews automatically, enhancing the relevance of testimonials displayed on websites. The company continues to explore AI’s potential to deliver core value more efficiently, focusing on features that deepen trust and improve customer understanding rather than adding superficial functionalities.

Biggest Wins, Failures, and Lessons Learned

Johannes is candid about the many failures he has experienced, viewing them as essential learning opportunities. One of the biggest challenges was underestimating the importance of micro-failures and rapid iterations when launching the self-service SaaS product. Early on, the team expected quick traction but faced many setbacks before finding product-market fit and scaling effectively.

A key turning point was seeking advice from someone with direct experience in sales-led SaaS growth. This mentor helped Johannes prioritize tasks, focusing on a few impactful actions rather than chasing many ideas simultaneously. Johannes highlights the difficulty founders face in admitting they don’t have all the answers but stresses the importance of seeking guidance and embracing vulnerability.

He also shares a vivid metaphor comparing the startup journey to being lost in a jungle, searching for a path out. Sometimes the path is fraught with challenges, but perseverance leads to clearer roads and eventual success. This metaphor helps him communicate transparently with his team about the company’s current state and next steps.

Founder Sales and Building a Personal Brand

Johannes has gradually re-embraced his personal brand after a quiet period during the early, difficult product launch phase. Now confident in Trustmary’s product and market fit, he actively shares his experiences and insights on LinkedIn, podcasts, and other channels. While he acknowledges his personal brand currently contributes little directly to pipeline or retention, he believes that giving value generously will return benefits over time.

Practical Hacks for SaaS Founders

• Spend time with your customers: Johannes advises founders to engage directly with clients, ask questions, and build relationships rather than relying solely on automation or AI-driven templates. This hands-on approach uncovers real problems and drives faster learning.
• Use live chat and expert calls: Trustmary replaced its old chat system with a premium live chat tool that enabled real-time conversations with users. Offering free 15- to 30-minute expert sessions helped them understand user struggles and convert more effectively, especially in localized markets.
• Prioritize ruthlessly: Focus on a few high-impact tasks rather than trying to do everything at once. Seeking advice from experienced peers can help sharpen priorities and avoid wasting time on less important activities.
• Embrace failures as learning opportunities: Micro-failures are part of the journey. Testing many ideas and quickly iterating based on feedback is essential for finding product-market fit and scaling sustainably.

The post Scaling SaaS: how customer insights drive SaaS growth with Johannes Karjula @Trustmary appeared first on saas.group.

In episode #19 of season 5 of the saas.unbound podcast host Anna Nadeina sits down with Denzil Eden, founder of Smarty.AI. Denzil shares her inspiring journey as a solo female tech founder who is revolutionizing the way small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs) operate by building AI-powered employees. This article dives into her background, the evolution of Smarty.AI, the challenges and pivots she faced, and her thoughtful approach to blending AI with human expertise to deliver scalable, outcome-driven solutions.

From Early Passion to Founding Smarty.AI

Denzil’s story starts in the Bay Area, California, where her passion for computer science took root early on. She pursued both a bachelor’s and master’s degree in computer science at MIT, focusing on AI and human-computer interaction. Despite developing a precursor to Slack for classrooms during her studies, she initially hesitated to dive into the founder life. Instead, she took a more traditional path by joining Microsoft as a product manager and later as a software engineer at Yammer, immersing herself in enterprise productivity tools.

Her entrepreneurial spirit reignited during her time at Harvard Business School, where she focused on AI and productivity. Inspired by the desire to create an AI assistant that could serve as an “AI employee” handling administrative tasks, she began building what would become Smarty.AI. Initially, it was a conversational chatbot aimed at consolidating tools like Calendly, HubSpot, and Superhuman into one seamless platform.

Facing Challenges and Pivoting Toward Product-Market Fit

Like many tech founders, Denzil experienced a common pitfall: building a product and hoping customers would come. Despite hard work and funding secured in 2020, Smarty.AI struggled to retain customers and hit revenue targets in an increasingly crowded market. The rise of generative AI further disrupted the landscape, pushing her to rethink the approach.

Last summer marked a major pivot for Smarty.AI. Denzil began experimenting with new business models, focusing on integrating “human-in-the-loop” elements alongside AI tools. This hybrid approach allowed Smarty to provide clients with not just AI automation but also human experts who ensure quality, context understanding, and customization—key factors that pure AI solutions often miss.

The Role of AI and Human Expertise in Smarty.AI’s Model

Smarty.AI today operates as a bridge between AI capabilities and human insight. Clients are paired with a dedicated engagement manager who understands their business goals and key performance indicators (KPIs). This manager oversees a team of human experts trained in AI tools and automation, who either use existing third-party AI or collaborate with Smarty to build custom AI solutions for clients.

This model addresses a critical challenge: while AI can handle bulk work efficiently, it lacks the nuanced understanding and quality assurance that human specialists provide. The combination ensures that SMBs receive reliable, high-quality outcomes tailored to their unique needs.

Scalability and Business Model Insights

Many of Smarty’s clients are coaches and small businesses with overlapping needs such as podcast editing, social media management, content creation, and newsletter distribution. The service is highly customizable, allowing clients to scale their engagement up or down monthly based on workload.

Denzil acknowledges the challenge of scaling a model that involves humans in the loop, especially as the client base grows. While still navigating this zero-to-one stage of product-market fit, Smarty.AI is focused on refining its foundational staffing model and identifying the ideal customer profile to scale sustainably.

Addressing AI Fatigue and Customer Experience

Many clients experience “AI fatigue”—the exhaustion from constantly having to learn, train, and quality-check AI tools. Smarty.AI alleviates this burden by managing the AI landscape for clients, selecting the best tools, and handling the training and quality assurance internally. This allows clients to benefit from AI-driven productivity without the overhead.

Defining AI vs. Automation

In conversations with clients, Denzil often clarifies what constitutes AI versus automation. While generative AI creates new content based on existing data—such as text, images, or code—much of what Smarty.AI currently implements is automation: structured workflows and “if-this-then-that” processes that streamline repetitive tasks. This distinction helps set realistic expectations for clients and guides investment in the right technology.

Challenges and Perspectives as a Solo Female Tech Founder

Denzil reflects candidly on the challenges faced as a solo female founder in tech, a space where less than 2% of venture funding goes to women and fewer than 1.5% of exits in Europe are female-led. She acknowledges the imposter syndrome she once felt but advocates for a growth mindset: “I can’t do this yet.”

Her advice to aspiring founders is to embrace resilience, maintain work-life balance, and separate personal identity from business outcomes. Taking care of mental and physical health, focusing on data-driven decisions, and objectively analyzing business metrics have helped her navigate the highs and lows of founder life.

Insights on Venture Capital and Business Fundamentals

Denzil admits that early on, she thought venture capital was the only way to start a company, but today she recognizes the ease of bootstrapping or starting with customer revenue. Though she pursued VC funding through an accelerator, she emphasizes the importance of focusing on business fundamentals like revenue, profit margins, and customer value rather than just chasing investment.

Raising venture capital, she explains, is a strategic game involving narrative and storytelling. However, founders should prioritize building a sustainable business with clear metrics before seeking funding.

Biggest Wins, Failures, and Key Metrics

Biggest Failure: Building a product without validating customer willingness to pay. Denzil stresses the importance of sales and chasing revenue early on.

Biggest Win: Progressing steadily towards product-market fit and gaining clarity from data and customer insights. Persistence and learning are the real victories for her.

Today, key metrics for Smarty.AI revolve around customer profit margins and identifying clients who deliver the highest returns. Revenue remains the most critical metric, especially in the zero-to-one phase, as it reflects real customer pain points and business viability.

The post Workflow automation: solo-founder building AI employees for SMBs with Denzil Eden @smarty.ai appeared first on saas.group.

In episode #18 of season 5 of the saas.unbound podcast, Anna Nadeina dives deep into the entrepreneurial journey of Arnaud Renoux, founder of ScaleList. ScaleList is a sales enablement software that simplifies the process of creating and organizing email lists directly from LinkedIn Sales Navigator. This episode reveals invaluable insights into transitioning from a service-based business to a product-led SaaS, growth strategies, bootstrapping challenges, and the power of customer-centricity.

Transitioning from a Lead Generation Agency to SaaS

Arnaud’s entrepreneurial path began with Scalab, an outbound lead generation agency he co-founded in May 2020 with his business partner Yousef Kali. While running Scalab for nearly five years, the duo harbored a strong desire to build and scale a product. This ambition led to the creation of ScaleList in late 2022 and early 2023.

Running two businesses simultaneously—the agency and the emerging SaaS product—proved to be incredibly challenging. Arnaud candidly describes this period as a “recipe for disaster,” emphasizing the difficulty in dedicating sufficient time to both ventures. By mid-2024, a decisive transition was made: retiring from the service business to focus exclusively on ScaleList, marking a major milestone and setting the stage for future growth in 2025.

Why Singapore? The Strategic Hub for Growth

Though Arnaud originally aimed for a career in Silicon Valley, fate led him to Singapore in 2017 after a job offer from Rocket Internet. The city-state quickly became home due to its strategic advantages:

• Geographical Hub: Easy travel to other parts of Asia and beyond.
• Tax Benefits: Almost no personal income tax.
• Diverse and Vibrant Community: A multicultural environment offering rich learning opportunities.
• Exceptional Food Scene: A foodie’s paradise with diverse international cuisines.

Arnaud’s experience underscores how location can influence entrepreneurial success by providing access to talent, networks, and lifestyle advantages.

ScaleList: Simplifying Sales Enablement in a Saturated Market

With many competitors in the sales enablement space, what sets ScaleList apart is its simplicity and laser focus. The platform enables users to extract lead lists from LinkedIn Sales Navigator, clean the data, and enrich it with valid emails and mobile numbers—all within three clicks and minutes.

Importantly, ScaleList caters to a broad audience, especially beginners and intermediate salespeople who may lack technical expertise but excel in traditional sales methods like cold calling. Arnaud highlights that many sales professionals are unfamiliar with SaaS tools or find existing solutions too complex. ScaleList’s straightforward approach fills this gap.

Customer support is another key differentiator. Arnaud personally engages with users, offering tailored responses and maintaining close relationships, reflecting a strong commitment to customer success despite the company’s early stage.

Bootstrapping and Strategic Funding Decisions

ScaleList operated as a bootstrap company until January 2025, when it raised a small round from Tiny Seed, a US-based accelerator focused on SaaS startups. This investment was strategic rather than a necessity, providing a financial safety net to accelerate growth and experimentation without sacrificing control.

Arnaud shares candid insights on bootstrapping:

• Pros: Full ownership and freedom to shape the company’s vision.
• Cons: Limited cash flow can restrict growth activities like hiring or advertising, leading to slower iteration and heavier reliance on founder effort.

Having external funds now allows ScaleList to test and scale faster while maintaining profitability.

Growth Strategies: The Power of YouTube and Content Marketing

One of ScaleList’s biggest wins has been leveraging YouTube for user acquisition. Starting in January 2024, Yousef began producing SEO-focused videos related to LinkedIn Sales Navigator, aiming to attract users searching for solutions on Google and YouTube.

Within months, YouTube accounted for over half of ScaleList’s website traffic and nearly half of new subscriptions. This success prompted the team to double down on video content, producing tutorials and educational videos that cover both the fundamentals of LinkedIn Sales Navigator and how to use ScaleList effectively.

Other acquisition channels include:

• Google Search: Users searching for solutions often discover ScaleList via videos and blog content.
• LinkedIn: Active presence and content sharing by the founders helps drive awareness.
• Chrome Web Store: Additional channel for discovery.

Understanding Customer Behavior and Enterprise Clients

Arnaud notes an important distinction in customer intent based on acquisition channel. Many users find ScaleList through educational content while researching how to perform tasks, rather than actively seeking a tool. This insight underscores the value of nurturing users through their buyer journey.

Enterprise clients, primarily based in the United States, represent about 10% of ScaleList’s customer base. These clients often discover ScaleList via word of mouth, LinkedIn, or YouTube, and self-initiate contact through the website’s sales form. Arnaud stresses the importance of building trust and ensuring product fit during sales conversations.

Enterprise customers have begun influencing ScaleList’s product roadmap, requesting features like:

• Team plans for managing multiple users.
• Integrations with popular CRMs like Salesforce and HubSpot.
• API access for custom workflows.

This feedback loop is guiding ScaleList’s evolution to better serve larger organizations while maintaining simplicity for smaller users.

Biggest Wins, Failures, and Lessons Learned

Biggest Win: Betting on YouTube as a key acquisition channel without prior expertise, then iterating and optimizing based on data, has been transformational for ScaleList.

Personal Win: Maintaining a strong, fight-free partnership with Yousef over five years, which Arnaud attributes to mutual respect and alignment.

Biggest Failure: Learning to prioritize time effectively. Arnaud admits that early on, he struggled with managing distractions and working on the wrong tasks, which slowed progress. He emphasizes the importance of focusing on high-leverage activities that move the business forward and deliberately setting aside less critical tasks.

Growth Hack: Direct Customer Conversations

To better understand why users subscribe or cancel, Arnaud personally reaches out to every new subscriber and cancellation. Although time-consuming, this practice has yielded valuable insights into customer motivations and pain points. Inspired by founders from ScrapingBee, he commits to maintaining this routine consistently.

This direct engagement helps ScaleList refine its onboarding, improve retention, and build stronger customer relationships—a powerful reminder of the value of staying close to users in a product-led growth model.

The post From lead gen agency to sales enablement PLG SaaS with Arnaud Renoux @ScaleList appeared first on saas.group.